Are we the other Lakers or are they the other Lakers?

As one of 'The Banned' I fell compelled to tell a little more about my feelings about GL, what happened and all that.

I was a member of GL for many many years...made thousands of posts and was I think mostly respectful of the rules, the other members and the mods. I was most active in the FC and then LOHAD...but I of course kept up with the main board and all things Bruce. It all started going downhill when then shut down the FC. Then they came up with LOHAD and a bunch of new rules. I felt uneasy about much of it, but was grateful to be able to discuss, debate or argue over politics or whatever was the 'news of the day'. Side note - it was mentioned somewhere here about how nobody ever changes someones mind about politics...so why debate? For me it wasn't about trying to change minds...maybe make someone at least appreciate other points of view...or for me to learn something from others...but almost nobody will change decades of having a certain mindset.

For me those discussions were occasionally enlightening, but more often than not I thought of it as entertaining....we had some great people posting their thoughts and opinions back then...often with humor...even during some of the most heated discussions about the most difficult subjects people would make me smile...and that was good.

So LOHAD was closed up and I was pretty livid. I pretty much decided to stop posting and was mostly successful at it. But after all those years...GL was pretty important to me and I kept going back to see what was going on...hoping the powers that be would wake up and realize the error they were making. There were PMs to Mods and the fearless leader to no avail. One thing I loved doing was going back into the older stuff on LOHAD. As some of you may know there was a guy named Welby/Miami MArk who was also my best friend...when he passed away it hurt...and I would sometimes look for his old crazy assed posts. But with LOHAD gone, so were those great old threads and posts. I will say that Karsten offered to cull all of Marks posts out and send them to me. But taken on there own, out of context and without the replies and comments it wouldn't be the same as my dives into GL's history...so I declined that kind offer.

Sorry this is getting a little long winded. Eventually I gave up on the idea that they would ever bring back the part of the Lake that was missing and was still annoyed. Especially when I would see or get wind of Mods posting something political or deleting stuff for no good reason beyond their lack of ability to see humor in some stuff. So I started using the 'smiley' emoji on political posts that were not deleted and Mod posts employing people to stop making political posts. Apparently the some of the Mods not only were humorless they also didn't understand how hypocritical they were being. The Smiley's got me put in the corner, but my response to the mods got me the ban. Funny thing...I actually got banned without actually posting a word on any threads...lol. While on timeout, I reported ModJudys political President Nixon post for 2nd time and added a comment and hypocrisy and how they fucked up GL. They didn't like that and I was gone....excessive smileys (mocking they said) and 'stalking'.

The 'Smiley' thing still cracks me up, I think I was give a timeout during LOHAD days for using them...to this day I still don't get how a stupid Smiley face can piss people off so much. I can guess the one or two posters from GL that would have actually complained. I'm not sure if it was me, bbb's or a combination that actually made them implement the 'No Smiley' rule...but it still amazes me that they did it.😀

Anyway...sorry for long post...I'm happy to be here and hoping we see a 'Political' section soon....but taking time to get it right is a good thing.

Thanks,

BB

Never been banned, I only have the link to this place on a WhatsApp message, and cant get on when I type the address into Google. Thanks.

Does this mean that only 'the banned' can post in the new political forum? That's JF, Billy and me (albeit for 2 days) ... who else? Oh ... bushy of course.

If I may chime in, "WTBA" could be the name, then everyone who joined now knows what it stands for, while allowing us to forge a new identity all our own as the site gets more polished and established in the wider Bruce community, whatever that is.

Stealing liberally from @Mario Brega I guess we have options like Bannedlands or Junglebanned, but neither sound as good as Where The Banned

I really like Where The Banned Are. I see we are now asked to vote on a series of things - haven't checked it out yet (too busy watching tennis!) but I guess this is one of the questions.

"Where the banned are" makes perfect sense to me. It's catchy, it's intriguing, it sets off the song in my head the way the title "greasy lake" never did. If we change the name at all - I can see some would rather rescue some connection to something that was a home for so long - well, if we change, it should be Where the banned are.

I'd say something BETTER than Greasy Lake. I dont know what that is at the moment. We should grow beyond them.

Maybe, just maybe, we should be bit pragmatic and wait for the new album to arrive, before we change our name? Just thinking out loud.

Yes, well done young Mario - perfect!

Where the banned are! Perfect!!!

Where The Banned Are

I do believe we have a winner!

@Mario Brega you are a genius Sir. 😂😂😂

I posted on this thread on Saturday, but I'll admit that I've only just read through it all now. I wasn't even aware that it was started four days earlier - I'm struggling to keep up with everything on here at the minute, but I'll get there, most likely when the Notification Alerts are sorted out.

Some great posts in here that I've really enjoyed reading, and I can only echo what a lot of you have said. As I've mentioned in the last week or so, I'll still be posting blog links on Greasy Lake (Would you expect anything less?), but I'm finished as a regular poster on there. This is the new best place to talk Springsteen, and you lot are the people to talk Springsteen with.

I've read all the comments about the name of this forum, and to be perfectly honest I'm not that bothered either way if we stick with Greasy Lake For Us or go with something different. I feel that it's up to @ibbhomero and if it's any hassle for him.

Still, I'll offer this suggestion for a potential new name: Where The Banned Are. That's it, that's the best I can do.

I missed the whole departure and temporary return of JF, only checking in to Greasy Lake every so often, but the removal of his previous posts is simply petty and ridiculous. Even my husband and son, who have never been on GL, agree with me. You don’t delete an entire collection of forum contributions.

I tend not to go on political threads. It's not like you are going to change anyone's mind. Most seem to be like a drunken couple fighting. You just wish they would hurry up and divorce, or shag. I did once post a thread in the Lake that was political in nature, for which I was punted for a week. The funny thing is, it was about a vile Australian politician who would be anonymous to all but about 10 people in the Lake (Mr Potato Head). I just wanted to post as I was angry, and it was my way of lashing out and letting my feelings known. At the end of the day, that post said more about me than anyone else.

I wouldn't be a Mod for quids. There is no doubt they are inconsistent in their adjudication. There are some members who get away with more than others. Some posts that might be pulled aren't. They have their favourites who they just ignore no matter what they say. I have generally been happy with that, as I think some members need more latitude.

I saw a lot of what JF posted that led to his suspension. He was very angry and vocal in the Coronavirus thread. I agreed with his point of view and frustration. You would go back to the thread later and there was two pages less, as JF's posts and replies had been chopped. In the end JF reminded me of the boy who keeps being naughtier and naughtier, goading the parents until he gets a smack. I saw the changed signature. Then he was gone.

I was lucky enough to jump on when Romeo made his appearance. It was fun. If the kids don't muck around whilst the teachers are out of the school room, then the world has become a sad place. The thread was always going to be axed.

It was the next bit that made me sad. I posted the next day on the 'For those of you who have read my stories' thread that I felt like I was at the Moonlight Motel. I think Bosstralian and Ann and some others jumped on with their enjoyment of the previous day and the current sadness they were feeling. JF was never mentioned in the comments I saw. Next time I go back all JF threads seemed to be gone. That made me sad. I hadn't seen any criticism, just people expressing their feelings.

I don't know JF outside of GL. I don't even know him that well on GL, though I have interacted with him plenty of times. I have not read his books and probably won't. What I value about him is that he lives a different life from me, and he provides me with a window into that life. It is the diversity of opinion and experience that I value from everyone. It makes your world bigger. Will you change my opinion, probably not. But I want to be opened up to what other people in other parts are thinking. Your feelings. Your experiences. I don't want an echo chamber. I already know what I think.

I am still a member of GL but they won't be getting the big donation I gave last time.

As for names, I love This Hard Land.

Stay hard, stay hungry, stay alive.

Cheers

Kent Guitar

.

I cannot say enough about your efforts in getting this place up and running Bud, you've done an amazing job.

I think the early traffic has been encouraging and hopefully this site goes from strength to strength.

I think we are both the Lakers, but, after working many hours in the forum today and feeling between tired and satisfied, I sincerely hope that this Lake managed to get rid of all the bad things that we escaped. It would be nice.

I've had one "run in" with a mod, and it happened very recently.

Some of you will know I started the "Bruce and Patti featured and "The Rising" used in Biden's video" thread, but knowing that it's a risky topic, I jokingly made a point of us only talking about Bruce's haircut and how they both looked.

I stopped reading it as it got a bit boring to me, honestly, but I clicked on it one night to see a certain mod (I feel uncomfortable saying their name but you can easily find out who it is) saying they'd deleted posts and to get back to the original purpose of the thread.

Given that my original purpose was to discuss Bruce's hair I posted something like "Thank you! I think his haircut is good".

A couple of minutes later I had a PM from them saying something along the lines of "I don't understand your post" and it had been deleted. I wasn't too bothered and didn't mind explaining what I meant.

In hindsight I am a little irked about this mod clearly not bothering to pay attention to the full thread and deleting something because *they* didn't get it. And I suppose I'm a little annoyed with myself for "brown-nosing" saying how the mods do a good job and all that - though in my defence it was before everything fell apart last week.

i think its an ethical thing to change the name to somethimg more origonal , and thr sub forums also, imitation might be the highest form of flattery but i dont think its appropreate in this case

I suggest a name change to give the site an independent identity and not be stuck in some "protest", "reaction" or "opposition" to GL. My personal preference would be something that refered to more modern day social commenting Bruce instead of 70's-nostalgia. Something along the line of "Youngstown Tramps", not "Soul-Fairy Café" if you get the grip.

Name. If we change it, we distance from the original Lake, and from the reasons why this forum was formed. The question is, whether we want this, or not. The same name might also cause confusion with the newcomers.

I think we should change the name, if nothing more than to give this site more originality, it's own identity if you will.

As my friends from southern Ontario would say...Hows aboot "Sparks Fly on E St", or...you know, something different like that? Maybe "The Promised Land Cafe".....I dunno, just something different.

Only question now is who is in charge of starting the Setlist Vision Threads if and when a tour begins...

Haven't had any run-ins with mods, but the way things were handled last weekend and the other stuff that came to light in the PM's left a really foul taste in my mouth.

I accidentally visited GL in time to experience New Romeo and the following thread, talk about happy accident and impeccable timing (or dumb luck, depends on perspective, I guess). But it was epic, someone called it an implosion; it was.

With so many people reacting to the subsequent deleting and PSA and then promptly migrating here, it was clear that this wasn't an overreaction at all.

GL was a great site, and there are and have been many, many good people that I've met over the last 20 years (the most fun was easily the ETC era). I'm glad so many have migrated here, and that I got to tag along.

Endless kudos to @ibbhomero for doing this in literally no time.

I’ve had very few run ins with moderators.

Once someone asked me to delete a post where I said that a certain racist member was racist. I said I wouldn’t.

Then I posted something on the main thread about their decision to ban JF. That was deleted without warning or communication.

And finally, a week or so ago, after reading what some posters had to say about certain political issues (I wonder why some can express their views), I called them out and called them a bunch of fucking Gollums. That got deleted. No warning, no communication.

I wish the name waa more origional. I like accros the

Re the site name. I have no strong views really and the current one is just fine. Other alternatives could be "The New Timer" or "Across The Border".

I know it was seen by few, so this is the post that took the mods to defcon-4. I admit, I butchered Guthrie, but still...

Re the name. I asked during the weekend about the legal aspect of our new name, I was thinking about copyrights and similar. If we are allowed to use the name we now have, I say we stick with it.

Very sad about recent events, I feel as if I have to choose between two good friends, so for the moment I wish you luck and stay safe.xx

Well, I came in from work and read through thirteen pages of the PM you all took part in. Thanks to @Louisa for sending me the entire thread in pdf.

It was like watching found footage of a revolution. One thing I learned from that PM is you are not a group of people in whose bonnet I would ever put a bee. What a bunch of scoundrels and upstarts you all turned out to be! I love you all more than I did before because of your extreme potential to be greasy.

I read the thread at a sort of breathless pace, because it demands it. Again, I think it's unfortunate that anyone felt the need to leave GL, but I've more insight now into the mod's more wide-ranging actions and I understand it. I could never go back. I mean I went back, but I could never really go back.

I got a bit emotional and read less breathlessly when I got to Roy's post and his telling of how uncomfortable and sad he was about all of this. I love Roy. I love Greasy Lake.

A truly epic and inspiring thread, folks, but I have to give the Gold Medal for grand champion post to the man formerly known as Paolo and his suggestion that Sylvia change her name to Joan Fontaine.

Again, what you all have achieved in a few days is remarkable. And appreciated.

Im still sad that it came to all this but i appreate all the work being put into creating the new forum

i cannot upsticks from the old place - my Jeep is camped out on a front lawn somewhere in Denmark but i dont see why i cant have day trips here to see you guys

its just there are good people who dont want to go and i dont want to leave them

i must say im looking forward to if we de get a political forum especially with a few of my horseman freinds now popping in

i actually thought when LOHAD was unmoderated it went ok and it was unnessesary to disable to disable it completly - so may great posts and discusiions gone locked away for ever now

one thing im hopeful for and i intend to repeat myself

i hope if we do get a political forum that any disagreements or unpleasentness stays on the thread of contention and that ill feeling does not migrate to other threads or sub forums with trolling

no body is ever going to agree with any other preson's point of view 100% and left and right do have common ground so lets not wash away all this goodwill by letting any politican ruin any more freindships

Excellent post @wout . Thank you. I agree with everything you've said above 100%.

And of course we need to be reminded from time to time what a great song Lost in the Flood is 😘

My two cents on the entire situation of past weekend (and I posted a similar thing in our PM discussion).

I cannot really comment on what has happened with JF or Billy or anyone else that got banned. Maybe it's because I primarily visit the circuit and forget that there's other forums worthy a visit 😜 But I didn't know the details of what went on and why you got banned.

So I was not necessarily mad at the mods for banning JF, because I didn't know what has happened between them. (Although, for the record, I do have the feeling that the ban was unjust and exaggerated.) 

So I cannot hold the mods accountable for any bad handling of the JF-affair, because I am not a party involved in that case. I can only comment on the things that I saw them do, I can only hold them accountable to those things. And what I witnessed did not please me.

The topic created of JF's return was 8 pages full of fun. There was NOT a single post that was along the lines of "fuck the moderation system on GL!! It sucks!" No, the topic was full of joyous messages because we were all happy to have our friend back. And wasn't that what GL was all about? I saw no reason at all to remove it so the fact that they did remove it, frustrates me.

And to make things worse, any post that mentions the short return of JF got deleted too. And this is just wrong. Why can't we say an objective fact like "hey, JF is banned", or "hey, JF has resurrected for 3 hours"? There is literally no judgement in those posts, so deleting them comes across more as a personal decision of the mods against JF. This is really a slippery slope. One can even argue that the freedom of speech is in danger.

It felt like the mods were trying to remove JF from our collective minds. Well, this will never happen, as Jerseyfornia WAS a big user of GreasyLake, and remains so. I simply feel like the MODS are one a witch hunt now where they are trying to delete any message ever posted by JF. So I guess the complete removal of the entity JerseyFornia from GL put me over the edge. I simply cannot understand why you would remove someone's posts (that were not harmful in any way). You cannot hide the existence and effect of JF (or any other user) on a platform such as GL. History cannot be altered. It can only be told differently.

And of course now we know more. Like about the secret mods-only section where apparently they all make fun of us. This self-proclaimed grandeur, majesty and eminence is just wrong. A forum is not defined by its staff, but by its members.

So I am happy we found a new home.

Greasylake is dead, long live Greasylake!

Finally I do need to make a confession. I still have my old GL account... Although I have not posted anything anymore since Saturday on there, I like to stay in touch with some of the users that have not migrated yet. (By the way, I read the terms&conditions and apparently you cannot even delete your profile even if you wanted to!) So I would like to end with another Wout's Wise Words of Wisdom: One can own many houses, but there is only one home.

And this new GreasyLake is my new home.

Take care, and all the best, my dear friends ❤️

I think it could be a problem to change the name now, although it couuld be confusing for new people.

My choice would have been This Lake is your Lake, in honour of Woody and JF's poem which kicked this whole thing off!

I agree, but it might be difficult now that the .com address has been registered. Not sure though...

I'd say we are the People's Popular Lake.

SPLITTERS!

I know I get too high late at night and miss stuff, but I've searched a few threads and I'm embarrassed to say I have no idea who @ibbhomero was on the other Lake.

Couldn't agree more. I gobsmacked by how much @ibbhomero was able to get done and so quickly.

I do want to say thank you to those of you who actually created this forum. I've seen several people include me in that, but that's not the reality. I was gone again from the Lake and sleeping soundly when you guys did this. I'm grateful to no longer be homeless on the internet.

From what I can reckon, @ibbhomero is due a round of applause. All of you who did this are.

The Lake (the other Lake) was on a downward trend for some time. After the excitement over Western Stars died down, there was only desultory conversation in the Circuit and a few more interesting posts on Loose Ends. But that got reglemented, as well. Banning people (without explanation to those who demand it) is simply dictatorial and goes right along with the behavior of the current ass in the White House.

While I might lurk over there occasionally, I see that all the posters I value are here. You can count on my financial contribution - I wasn't stingy on the other place!

Moderating is, or can be, an extremely difficult and time-consuming and thankless job. There's absolutely no way to keep everyone happy.

But deleting JF's old posts was not only unnecessary, and was not only beyond petty--it was artistic vandalism. And combined with the reports of what they did and said behind the scenes, well...

When I saw that they were essentially removing all your threads and posts @Jerseyfornia i realised I’d had enough. I commented on my bike thread that I was out. I knew only a few people looked on that thread anyway, which was fine, as they were most of the key people I wanted to let know. As I said on the group PM (which I guarantee you was being monitored) when you were banned, I lost my desire to visit the Lake. After the weekend, staying there felt like nothing less than a betrayal to you. i will forever owe @ibbhomero a debt of gratitude for what he has done here. And although my banana republic money is worth buggerall, I will make sure I contribute all I can. I’m so happy we are all here.

I'm far more astounded by Billy's banning, and the reasoning behind it, than I am my own.

I've really missed you JF!

Actually, the devil on my shoulder liked the sound of that. I just sent them 25 bucks with a note. "Love Jerseyfornia, motherfuckers."

I find it really difficult to understand why are the mods there totally deaf when it comes to hearing the people. They don't seem to understand the concept of a forum at all.

I think we are still one.

I've never had any run ins with any of the moderators over there. I think I had some posts deleted once when I posted a poor choice play on words in the political forum saying your current President is less American and more Americant (except changing the third to last letter thus entering offensive language territory).

But I never had any warnings or so forth.

I guessed you may have pushed a line somewhere to get yourself in strife, and so be it, but I thought deleting all your past writings and posts from the Forum was a really bizarre step.

I will still lurk over at The Lake, I may even post occasionally (hope no one feels this betrays the spirit of this new place), but I think I'll be here more because with the crowd gathering it appears, to paraphrase Bruce, that's where the fun is.