America

“They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and then they make you king.” - Bob Dylan, 1983.

It's like he was looking into the future and saw Trump with his "America first!"-slogan being elected for President.

I love all of you. This is why I am here.

Here's hoping we get the political forum - that's why I joined. Reading the 'About us' and the comments from members regarding listening to each other and respect etc ... all bode well. Looking forward to inclusivity and fairness.

Those who listen to what others have to say. More choice can only be a good thing in general.

If he continues the way he started it can only be good news.

He did. He made sure Labour put somebody in prime position that was electable. Well, more electable. People now have an option that wasn't there before.

There's just a meanness is this world, as someone once said.

I think I feel more disheartened about the U.K. than I have ever felt. I just don't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

I guess I just fail to see the point in being proud of ashamed of a country. Or in loving or hating a country. The US have committed some of the worst attrocities in History and have produced some of the most beautiful things as well. Reality is so much more complex than these dichotomies...

I have always been very suspicious of patriotism.

That's because of who I am and the country I was born in. I am sure, the then about 70 million people who adored Hitler and were burning with "righteous" patriotism couldn't every one of them have been bad. And yet the most atrocious crimes came from that arrogant belief that Germany was the greatest country on earth.

So whenever someone talks about the greatest country on earth - and Americans are very fond of that phrase - I flinch and think, I hope you will never have to contemplate where that might lead - and has lead to in the past.

I am really aghast at some of the things Trump has said and done (and Johnson isn't far behind) - and there are all these smiling, flag waving people who cheer them on.

So, forgive me if this "I am proud to be an American, Spaniard, Italian", whatever, rings false in my ears. Every country has great achievements to its name in literature, philosophy, music and in many other fields. And in the name of every country great crimes have been committed - slavery anyone, the genocide of the American Indians, the Aborigials, the natives of all the African, Indian colonies and so on? Wars and war crimes?

I am sure it's ok to like all the good things your country offers you. You are proud of them? Which ones have you contributed?

In the end, you can only be proud of your own achievements.

It's OK, I'll get my coat

Is ther a page 3?

For some reason i cant read page 3 - very frustrating

I don't expect my freinds to be perfect

I was almost sure of it, it was too similar to be purely coincidental...well done.

I'm hearing this exchange with the background music to The River intro on the Live set...

I have to practice reported speech.

I had an interesting talk with my oldest son today. He asked if it's OK that teachers express personal political beliefs in school. I said no, they shouldn't. Thought it was domestic politics, so I asked what they were taking about. He said they are all against Trump. I said that's good...

I Am a Patriot - Jackson Browne

And the river opens for the righteous And the river opens for the righteous And the river opens for the righteous And the river opens for the righteous And the river opens for the righteous someday

I was walking with my brother And he wondered what's on my mind I said what I believe in my soul Ain't what I see with my eyes And we can't turn our backs this time I am a patriot And I love my county Because my country is all I know I want to be with my family The people who understand me I've got nowhere else to go And the river opens for the righteous And the river opens for the righteous And the river opens for the righteous someday And I was talking with my sister She looked so fine I said, "Baby, what's on your mind?" She said, "I want to run like the lion" Released from the cages Released from the rages Burning in my heart tonight And I ain't no communist And I ain't no capitalist And I ain't no socialist And I ain't no imperialist And I ain't no democrat Sure ain't no republican I only know one party And it is freedom I am, I am, I am I am a patriot And I love my country Because my county is all I know And the river opens for the righteous And the river opens for the righteous And the river opens for the righteous Someday And the river opens for the righteous...

I've written a lot of poems about America over the summer. They express my feelings better than political posts. I tend to get worked up when I make political posts.

The power of the lyrics of he Rainmaker are that they can apply to all populists who offer simple solutions with simple slogans for complex issues. I hope that Trump is the first domino to fall.

My niece, who is from Argentina so knows what she is talking about, cannot believe the British are taking the lying, the backtracking and corruption lying down. As she says, she knows what it is like to live in a country where the institutes of state don't function.

North America's greatest country; confirmed November, 2016.

When I was backpacking around Europe back in the early 80’s, I met a kid (looked a bit younger than me, about 20) who told me, “You just don’t know - it’s a lot of pressure being a citizen of the country that everyone looks to as the leader of the free world.”.

I wonder what he’s thinking now.

The USA is not a bad country, not by a long shot. But the "shining beacon", "greatest country", "God on our side" etc is total bull-shit. It's the largest and strongest country in the western democratic world. No better or worse than the average EU-country.

Of course you are right @BillyB . I think the same can be said for the whole world, most people are good people, trying to do the best for themselves, their families and their communities.

I just feel my generation, who had all those hopes and expectations in the 60's didn't deliver. There are areas where things are better than they were of course, but overall I don't feel very proud of the world we are leaving for our grandchildren. I hope they do better than we did. I like your positive news thread - am going to find something to post there.

I'm proud to be an American...always have been, always will be.

And America is a great country...with flaws like anyplace else. These days with instant internet news, especially of the 'viral' kind magnify these flaws like never before. Stories get blown up and out of all proportion...dominate news cycles and make the rounds all over the planet. I don't deny or ignore the fact that bad shit happens...but in a country of over 300 million that's inevitable.

I believe that the vast majority of those over 300 million are good, decent, hard working people that never make the news. They live in thousands of little towns, large cities or something in between...and we never hear much about or from them.

What we do hear over and over and over again is whatever negative shit makes the news...and it's the negative shit that sells. You gotta look for the good stories, but there out there.

So y'all can keep soaking in the negative...I won't ignore it or make believe that bad shit ain't out there...but I won't let it define who I am or how I feel about my country as a whole. Can things be better...yes always....but it ain't all bad, not by a long shot.

I feel honoured to be British. Always have done, always will.

When I was a kid and I didn't feel like I had much to be proud about, I was always proud that I was an American. I'm glad I have other things to be proud of now, because that old standby has fled from me.

As an American I can definitively say: America is not great, it was never great.

For me Jeff Daniels is to acting what Bruce is to music. Bruce is ahead though. Dumb and Dumber. I'll say no more.

I like this clip

Look out y'all, damn commies are on their way trying to hand out universal health care again..

Better grab your assault rifles and hit the front lawn to defend your turf...

Intelligent, reasonable, non-delusional people have known this for a long time now. America has been on a steady decline since the Vietnam war & Watergate.

This is over a month old so you may have all seen it. “The Unraveling of America“

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/

It's the archaic political system that needs to be modernized, in my opinion. I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Trump first...........Please!

America and the U.K. have sunk to a new low in recent years. Leaders who just lie through their teeth and get away with it. I hate them both but, if push came to shove, I'd get rid of Trump before Johnson.

MFKER!

Trump must go, and he will be gone by January. But the next few months will be painful.

Until the American government stops being dominated by the two-party system, until it stops being open to the highest special interest bidder, until we have a president and members of the legislature who put the interests of their constituents above theirs, I don't see any changes coming, at least not in my lifetime. However, a move in the positive direction, such as Trump dropping dead would be a good start. Massive coronary, brain aneurism, Covid....I don't care. Just drop dead as soon as possible. & take your most faithful ignorant minions with you.

(sorry to those who take offense)

As a kid I never imagined I'd say this, but my country is heaven on Earth compared to the USA.

And far too many people are caught on the wrong side of that line of winners and losers.

I was about to post the same thing.

The sad part is, I can't argue any of the above.