I'd punch the fucker if I could. The buck stops with him. He chose the most cynical way to do it. Spending the majority of the early part of the tour on the East Coast, letting millions of us on the west coast high and dry. NYC, Philly, hell...Long Island...anything he can fly a copter to. Fuck off. I am tired of supporting this crap.
That sound you hear is the end of the greatest band I ever saw or heard. Giving in to the industry and ripping people off. FUCK YOU BRUCE. Jon is just a yes man now.
You all know how much I love them, and consequently, I am more let down by this than anything he has ever done. You can add up all the missteps going back to the poorly recorded shows in 2014. Then add no west coast dates then. 2016 was a waste of time in comparison, then the best shows were in the late summer and if you wanted to go, you needed to fly to Jersey or Philly. We on the west coast got fucked over. Then add the narcissistic self-serving mythology bullshit of Broadway. yes, I said it. Fuck you, Bruce Springsteen.
I concur. I'd punch the fucker too if given the chance. Little asshole sellout son of a bitch!
Sounds like he's mixing it up tonight for New York.
Is there a tailgate on the go?
And now sound checking Seven Nights to Rock
Sound checking Mary’s Place at moment.
After all this time to find you were just like all the rest.........
The days of it being a two way thing are gone, I guess. You pay your money, you turn up, you get the show. 😔
Springsteen in Detroit, and he doesn't play the medley?
The setlist, as solid as it is, is getting weary.
Peeked in at the lake…looks like a good number of fans feel somewhat similar to me….that disconnected feeling. I never ever would have thought it possible that I’d feel as I do. I find myself not even listening to his music nearly as much as I once did.
That said….It’s looking like I’ll be at UBS Sunday. I have a side job that will put me in the building…so I’ll get to hear/see some of the show and get paid…lol.
I’m sincerely hoping that being there will rekindle some of the lost love for Bruce…The E Street Band and the music. But I’m not that optimistic.
Thought folks on here might appreciate this exchange:
"How is it that Robert Smith managed to hold Ticketmaster in line, but Taylor Swift can't manage it..?"
"Because Ticketmaster is the disease and Robert Smith is THE CURE!"
What can I say? I'm a big fan of the well-executed Dad joke.
Good old Shakey.
Putting to one side the abomination that is dynamic pricing, I’m seeing what I would call ’mid-range’ artist shows jacking up prices significantly, to a level that now means I’m starting to opt out. Recent cases in point Natalie Merchant & Norah Jones tickets coming in at £65 with add-ons. I bit the bullet and went with NM, whereas a couple of years ago I’d have expected around £40 apiece and done both, tho’ the £1.75 print at home e-ticket charge stuck in the throat somewhat. On the upside £17 will get you in to Amanda Shires upcoming tour, and I’ve just snagged another Pretenders small venue ticket for £40, so there’s still shows to be seen - just have to be prepared to pass on some.
Fair play to Robert Smith…..
https://pitchfork.com/news/the-cures-robert-smith-says-hes-sickened-about-ticketmaster-fees-as-tour-goes-on-sale/?utm_source=twitter&mbid=social_twitter&utm_brand=p4k&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social
Bruce fans all over the world should vote with their feet and not to go to concerts where BS sings about working class to people who bought 5000 dollar tickets.
My friend John texted me tonight, asking if I was seeing the Springsteen show later this week. I wrote back, explaining that I was boycotting the tour. Turns out he's going to the show, and asked what to expect. Solo tour, E St Band? You see, he hasn't seen Bruce since the Born In the USA tour. I remember when Human Touch came out, and John said getting rich had changed Bruce, and he disregarded him after that. All aboard for the irony train. But now he and his wife were offered free seats from friends of theirs, nice people, wealthy, who have never shown interest in Springsteen or his music in front of me. Anyhoo, they're sitting in the 4th row. Oddly enough, I can honestly say I'm not jealous. I wouldn't go for free. I know someday I'll get past this, but I haven't listen to a Springsteen recording since tickets went on sale last summer.
I still occasionally peek at GL. I looked at that thread and bit and read a couple standard condescending replies from long timers responding to a seriously disgruntled former fan of Springsteen.
I personally feel disappointed in Springsteen to the point that I don’t really care if a see a show or not….and it’s a definite not unless something lucky happens and I get a reasonably priced seat. But I’m not really even trying.
I still love the music…but ‘disconnect’ is a good word for how I’m feeling overall as it pertains to Mr Springsteen.
Nah, I'll pass on GL.
I was going to look in and wish Roy luck before the cup final but I was worried I'd get sucked back into the nonsense.....
If you're into some real 'Fuck You Bruce Springsteen' action and you still have the will and /or ability to visit Greasy Lake, check out the 'Some Kind of Disconnect' thread over there.
I actually made a satirical post over there, because as opposed to some of the measured and thoughtful stuff we've seen here there is some unhinged crazy going on.
I felt I was pretty much over my no-Cali-shows-blues, but the three nights in Florida only remind me that he's ignoring a major market that every successful artist plays each tour. He's always played several nights in the L.A. area, several in the bay area, and scattered nights elsewhere in Cali. At least, I'm not missing much. It's the same-old, same-old and I'm not talking about the static setlist, I'm talking about the songs that get played night after night. What's any different this time around? Three recent albums to draw from and he plays six or seven songs from them and the first songs to get dropped are the new ones.
Every tour is a nostalgia tour. He's capable of presenting so much more, but he's gotten a bit lazy, it seems.
Still, if he brings the routine to California, I'd go just to prove to myself I'm right.
I don't disagree that he comes across as rich and in a bubble. And on the one hand, should we be surprised? There's that great story from years ago about when Noel Gallagher met him for the first time, and how he kind of fell in love with Bruce, due to how much of a hardcore music fan Bruce is. But the thing that always hit me, and which I don't recall anyone else mentioning, was that when Bruce arrives at the restaurant--which was in the south of France or Italy, if I recall correctly--it's on a yacht that pulls right up to the restaurant, said yacht belonging to and delivering Calvin Klein.
Now. On the one hand, most of us on here think Bruce is either the greatest or at least ONE of the very greatest live acts of the past 50 years. And don't we think people should be compensated for their work? Whether blue collar or artist? And from the bit we've learned over the years, we know that everyone in what will be a very, very large band this time out will be very nicely compensated--in some cases, seemingly, because they won't be getting another payday like this, possibly for another six years, if ever. I don't doubt Garry, say, does fine between tours, but it's also not hard to imagine that a tour like this will equal the next (or previous) five years combined for him, never mind Jake or Soozie.
Finally, as disappointed as I am by all this—and I am, I really truly am—one of the thoughts that comes back to me again and again is that he's seemingly happier as a person than he's ever been before in his life. And the "things were better in 1978" or '81 or '84 or '87 or 1999 or 2012 or whichever time period you personally think was the best, well, whichever it is, unless it's after 2014, we now know there's a very good chance he was in a terrible place, mentally and emotionally. Meaning the Bruce most of us love best was a desperately unhappy one. And the one who's finally—in what is essentially his old age—finally happy, is the one who's disappointed us.
I hate being disappointed. You'd think I'd be used to it by now, but I'm not. (You might also think I'm being flippant or attempting to be humorous, but I'm really not.) But for years I've had the very conflicty feeling that my being totally happy with Bruce almost has to coincide with his being very unhappy, and that's...not a great feeling. Maybe, on balance, it's okay that I can't afford to ever see him again if it also means he's not so depressed he's incapable of getting out of bed for years.
I mean.....this whole shitshow would've been tempered by one statement.
"We're aware of the negativity and controversy surrounding the current ticket sales model.
We will undertake a full review and learn lessons for future tours "
Non-committal but empathetic (to a point).
Say's what it needs to say while saying fuck all.
Yet they seem intent on doubling down........
A Ratner-esque level of PR competence.
And that’s another take-away. An amiable enough old guy that has entrusted the day to day to the organisation. Maybe that’s a necessity for him now, but it ain’t doing his rep much good.
Please Bruce Inc. stop with the tone deaf PR, read the fucking room.
Based on his Rolling Stone interview, he doesn't seem to give a shit.
Just chilling here in Aussie land waiting for my chance to get pissed off at Bruce ticket prices and the fact he ignored Adelaide this time (which I have a bad feeling is a given for some reason)...
Yeah, I doubt Landau will let him anywhere near proper journalistic scrutiny.
When's he due on Norton again?
Ouch! https://backstreets.com/news.html#letters
Looking forward to hearing Graham Norton challenge our man on this in his forthcoming interiew……
My expensive tickets for Munich came today.
What in the past was an occasion for exitement and celebration now leaves me curiously untouched. It may be I'm getting too old to be a real fan, or the disappointment about the ticket anger is getting to me...
I hope I can rustle up some enthusiasm when the date arrives.
UK petition started, please sign and share.
https://chng.it/TRcrNV95JJ
https://chng.it/sSJVT9TP9g
A Stateside petition against dynamic pricing.
I'm going to see if there's a UK one or start one.
Please sign and share, maybe on the old place if anyone still does post?
Late to the discussion. I did find it distasteful that I got an email to buy merch at essentially the same time as the tickets were being offered up. It’s quite a money machine, that organization.
Tour merch unveiled:
Please don't give your tickets away Louisa, or sell them. I think you should go, you could feel so much differently come show time, too hard to predict how you'll feel right now. Hell I'm in for whatever my pocket book will open for, if it does, and I'm gonna enjoy the hell outta it despite this huge circus show.
I've been in a relationship with Bruce since I was 15. I felt he was authentic. I could listen to Joad downloads and was moved to tears. The humanity in his lyrics and the collective identity he managed to bring to life at his shows were substantial elements of my devotion. And that's gone now. I'm not sure if it's completely gone, but I can't trust his words at the moment. It's the first time I am not excited to have the tickets. First time thinking about maybe giving them away for free to fans who couldn't afford to buy them.
Those song introductions on stage, the ones where Bruce talks about Elvis, how he wanted to be like Elvis, but realized he didn't want that anymore - that's how I feel about Springsteen now. I want to write a sequel to Mansion On The Hill, in which the kid who stared up at that house from the fields and the road is now the old man behind the windows of the mansion.
I'm just feeling really flat over this.
I haven't formulated my feelings into anything cogent yet.
I don't fully understand how the U.S. side of things work with the "verified fan" stuff.
The lack of dates in Cali, once again, don't know the details but it seems a bit suss.
But, both sides of the Atlantic, I hate that Bruce, and any artist whose art speaks to any sort of integrity, gets in bed with Ticketbastard.
Having said that, I understand that Bruce inc. do not have the infrastructure to handle distribution in-house.
Equally I understand that the Live Nation/Ticketbastard devil's duo have cornered the market as a "one stop shop" in putting on tours of this scale.
I get that concert tickets are expensive and I acknowledge that these tickets are, at worst, on a par price-wise with what other artists of a similar profile are charging, in terms of initial face value.
The thing I totally do not get is the dynamic pricing model.
Firstly, I cannot understand why this is legal.
It is abhorrent, it is unfair and it is morally bereft.
Secondly, I cannot believe that Ticketbastard could legally insist that the "dynamic" element of this was a deal breaker in terms of taking Bruce's business. In short, Bruce inc. could have put the kibosh on dynamic pricing. I refuse to believe otherwise.
Thirdly, the concept of Landau, nominally or actually speaking for Bruce personally, defending this practice, completely blows my mind.
I simply cannot get my head round the tone-deaf nature of the response.
Bruce inc. must have some sort of in-house PR/marketing department.
They've failed here.
Historically, the period after buying tickets for a Bruce show I'm on a child-like high.
Making plans, travel and social, debating (even this far in advance) the set list and generally behaving giddy.
Now, I just feel flat and let down
I daresay this might change in the run up to the shows, for now, the world seems somehow darker.
Jumping in late on this…but the ticket situation is disgusting. I really don’t know what to think. I just checked for single tix at USB Arena….over $400 before fees etc for a behind the stage top section seat…$4,000+ for a floor single. Bruce….what have you done?
I hate how much I love the music and have been so let down by the man himself. I can't begin to understand what his life may be like. I can't imagine what getting $500 million for your life's work can do to you mentally. Sadly, for the masses, they don't have access to a therapist 3 times a week for $800 and hour. Also, they can't get up each morning and decide what to do with their own time. We get up at sunrise, work a job to enrich someone, then we go home to extract some joy from what remains....
He decided at age ten to be a musician, and he was able to surrender everything to it to this day. He acted out of a responsibility to his fans, gave up millions to do so. I don't need to tell the whole story, we have been force fed the mythology since I read Dave Marsh's books. This obsession with selling us his mythology in addition to the music itself was a great decision as it made us feel we know him and can relate to the struggle....It made him really relatable and he took care of me as a fan since the first time I set eyes upon him. I had played Born to Run, Darkness, and The River, but when he arrived on stage, it split me open. I am an addict. I need what he does for me, or what he did once...but now we have stories of dinners with former presidents and movie stars..we see him on the beach with other famous people, Entry into that world must have been expensive...and to make a joke out of it by calling it a trick is so damn frustrating for me...
But now, I call bullshit. Him coming up with the concept of the magic trick really has soured me. I hope I am back someday, but bullshit is bullshit.
As I think I may have written on here, I've been wondering how much of it's directly attributable to this very possibly being Jon's last big payday. Bruce has almost always been Jon's only client, and there are good things and bad things about that. And other than maybe McCartney or U2, Springsteen is the best possible client a one-client manager could have. But still and all, if the train's coming to the end of the track, it would not be unreasonable to want as much padding as legally and ethically possible. And, well, these prices seem to be legal, at least...
"What I have been thinking about, though, is whether this in some way (from a certain point of view) is actually an attempt to help out Bruce Inc more so than Bruce himself. There would be folks in the organisation who would be involved largely only with the touring side of the operation. Perhaps they are on a retainer, but make more once the tour machine is up and rolling. Given we know that whole side has had a forced shut down (there would've been a LTY tour much sooner sans COVID), maybe there is more money being shared with these support staff this time around. Hell, maybe even the band are signed on with higher pay this time."
I'm sure almost everybody would have been OK with knowing that a proportion of the increased ticket prices would be going to help out those in the industry who have been unable to work during the pandemic. But that doesn't begin to touch the sides of what has been done.
Base price tickets instantly siphoned off to resellers
Grossly inflated prices
Inferior seats on sale at premium prices
Ticket prices increasing while the transaction is in progress
Interesting piece.
@Louisa He had a grin a mile wide joining Bleachers on stage the other night.
Of course, that was just a few minutes and he has also said previously he found live performance to be therapeutic and a foil against depression.
Ultimately, though, he has a team of people looking after his business interests. I assume he has final sign off, but others are doing the leg work here. It's not like Bruce said 'I don't give a fuck, let's charge as much as we can' and everyone scurried off to do his bidding. More like Jon said, 'Bruce, this is what we've negotiated...' and he either says yay or nay.
What I have been thinking about, though, is whether this in some way (from a certain point of view) is actually an attempt to help out Bruce Inc more so than Bruce himself. There would be folks in the organisation who would be involved largely only with the touring side of the operation. Perhaps they are on a retainer, but make more once the tour machine is up and rolling. Given we know that whole side has had a forced shut down (there would've been a LTY tour much sooner sans COVID), maybe there is more money being shared with these support staff this time around. Hell, maybe even the band are signed on with higher pay this time.
I'm just speculating, but there is certainly potential for this to be more complicated than Bruce just saying 'Gimmie gimmie gimmie'.
Has anyone been thinking if this is somehow connected to his mental health? No one seems to wonder if he is OK? Bruce, the person? One must feel incredibly empty to not give a fuck anymore for what they fought for their entire life.
I have a confession to make.
Advanced apologies for those still angry with our man. Perfectly understandable and it makes me sad how this has made some feel. I myself also feel a little less enamoured of Bruce the person at the moment, if not permanently.
But I'm an addict and can't stay away. Trust the art, not the artist... it always seemed a cliche we could ignore. But while the artist has let us down, for me the art lives on and is magnificent.
I played Paris Night 2 yesterday and it is tremendous. I was completely caught up in it. Incident... oh my, great performance and my soul was soaring with the backing vocals. Even the Wrecking Ball material, which should sound hollow now... but, no. These songs are about me, they may be about you... they still ring real for me and what I myself project emotionally on them. And the performances themselves... a band on fire, way beyond what a bunch of 60 plus year olds have any right to sound. Bruce's vocals here are some of the strongest of the Reunion era... For You as an e.g. is vocally sublime.
So, I've caved. My sincere hope is that all of you can find your way back to the art in due course, even if the artist has disappointed you and lost your respect. Of course, I fully appreciate it may be harder for others to separate Bruce from his songs and the ethos both they and him always espoused as it did for a long time seem to be one and the same.
Well the heart wants what the heart wants.
Second best stress relief method involves 2 wheels and a pair of pedals.
@Walkerinthesun
Is "thrashing the bike" some sort of Euphamism?
Yeah, Bruce buddy got response from BST advising their error (allegedly) when he complained thru their contact route. In the meantime I went out to thrash the bike to relieve frustration for a couple of hours! I’m guessing their inbox went off the scale. And breathe……..
Several posters on GL now saying that there was a mix up on BST website for a while where a map from an old event was temporarily displayed. @Walkerinthesun I think you should be OK, according to these folks it's now displaying as the original map again.
Still, more stress and nonsense for those affected.
@Walkerinthesun Holy crap, that can't be right, surely? The amount of people who would've bought Gold Circle thinking that gets them on the rail, to now find they are effectively behind the 'pit... that's an absolute disgrace.
Don't apologise for the bad language, in fact I commend you on being reserved in your anger. And it's nothing compared to what will erupt when people who bought Gold Circle based on the original map but who haven't looked at it since turn up on the day to find where they are. It's going to be a riot.
At best (worst), if that Diamond View zone is to move, it needs to be split 50/50 in terms of stage front access with Gold Circle based on how Gold Circle was originally sold.
Perhaps I should offer an explanation for last nights outburst. Here‘s the Hyde Park layout when tix went on sale.
Now that it’s sold out the layout I posted yesterday has been put up by BST. See the difference? Note the ‘viewing areas are approximate and subject to change’ get-out beneath the maps.
There is no way these Gold Circle zones approximate each other, and without a shadow of a doubt these tickets have been mis-sold. I’d think about pursuing reimbursement direct from the promoter if I thought there was a cat in hells chance of being successful. Thinking about resell at face. Never thought the prospect of going to see Springsteen would dog me off. 1st world problem I know, and doesn’t compare with what our US friends have been subjected to, but it really is a deceit which adds insult to injury.
And apologies for the bad language.
And BST can fuck right off too.
I’m so disgusted with this whole thing. I was going to write a wordy post about all this but it really comes down to this: how many of Bruce’s characters would afford tickets to one of his shows?
I’ve got two tickets for Edinburgh and I’m not sure I’m going to be using them.
https://www.nj.com/opinion/2022/07/bruce-springsteen-does-not-care-about-you-opinion.html
Jeez, it took this long to concoct a tone deaf response couched in corporate speak?
Confirms what has been increasingly apparent: no heart, no soul. All gone.
If, as I guess a lot of us think, this is the last time around the block for the E Street Band then I’m fine with that. Almost relieved that my friends and I won’t have to go thru this sort of upset again.
That’s a heartbreaker, JF.
Well, Landau made it worse...What a shit show.
When the promise is broken
You go on living, but it steals something from down in your soul
Like when the truth is spoken, and it don't make no difference
Something in your heart turns cold
Oh dear Mr Landau........oh dear.
I don't know why Landau had to put out a truly tone deaf statement because even if he were to be a known psychopath, I do NOT think he's not intelligent. I'm the first to admit it may not satisfy folks, but nothing even in the way of acknowledgment to the fans' outrage or something to state how everyone's struggling in these inflationary times, that OK things didn't run smoothly and they're sorry for it. He could have still said he thinks it's a fair price, which in the mid 200s I do too, but gave some empathy behind it.
Well, I'm guessing most folks on here follow Backstreets on twitter, and/or have seen the New York Times story about the ticket prices. All I can say is that, indeed, I seem to have been at least slightly Pollyannaish. Still not convinced Bruce himself knew...but he knows now, obviously, and hasn't done anything except let his manager say "hey, it's not that bad, and he's worth it." So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ https://twitter.com/Fauxbituary/status/1552072685168893952
Just booked a 7 day cruise to Alaska for two with a balcony cabin for $2,000 less than a pair of 100 level Springsteen tickets in Austin or Denver.
Last Train Out (Blue Flannel Shirt)
I wore a blue flannel shirt
Just like Springsteen on an album cover
Wore out the grooves on his records
I played them over and over again
Until I knew every song by heart
I'd sing along and hum the saxophone part
And he was the obvious hero
For a boy in a town without men
And I followed when his guitar roared
And I answered when he called all aboard
I knew all I had to do was raise my hand
And I caught a fast train out for the promise of a promised land
I wore that blue flannel shirt
Long after it grew tattered and faded
Wore it the first time I saw him
He played for hours and hours that night
Oh and I knew every song by heart
I'd sing along and hum the saxophone part
And he's been a fair enough hero
For a kid born blinded by the light
But it's my last chance to ride that train
And I'm waiting at the station in vain
I thought all I had to do was raise my hand
But I missed the last train out for the promise of a promised land
Thought I'd go dancing once more in the dark
But I can't start a fire without a spark
You said all I had to do was get on board
But I missed the last train out and the promise I could not afford
@Jerseyfornia It's amazing how quick proponents of laissez-faire capitalism are to abandon their free-market principles when the £$€ dictates.
Further to Louisa's post here's Bruce's article that.......let's just say, hasn't aged too well.
https://web.archive.org/web/20090207073333/http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/02/04/bruce-springsteen-furious-at-ticketmaster-rails-against-live-nation-merger
The last 5 times I saw Mr. Springsteen (who am I to call him by his first name?), were all really special in various ways, even by his standards. So I went out on a great roll. I'm 66, and I've seen him 39 times since 1976. I really and honestly have zero regrets about boycotting this tour, and I see no reason to believe future tours will be any different. I had great times, and I walk away from this with a sad smile, rather than seething rage. If I didn't know better I'd swear I was maturing.
That is rather silly to suggest Landau didn't consult with attorneys before signing this shite away. Sure a lot of folks his age don't know how to use technology but this has nothing to do with that for the love of Christ.
I just checked Live Nation on Wikipedia. Who would have thought...
In 2009, Live Nation and Ticketmaster, a concert promotion firm and ticketing company, reached an agreement to merge. The new company received regulatory approval and was named Live Nation Entertainment.[3][4] Michael Rapino, then-CEO of Live Nation, became the new company's CEO, while Ticketmaster CEO Irving Azoff was named executive chairman.[5]
The merger was approved first in Norway and Turkey in 2009.[6] The United Kingdom's Competition Commission provisionally ruled against the merger,[7] but reversed its decision on December 22, 2009.[6]
The merger was opposed in the U.S. by some regulators, artists, fans, and competing firms, who argued it would reduce competition in the industry and increase ticket costs.[8][9] Artist Bruce Springsteen was one vocal opponent of the merger at the time.[10]
That Backstreets editorial is really something. When the (wonderful! Truly!) site which, let's be honest, tends towards being the Pravda of Springsteendom lets you have it with both barrels, well, to quote the bard, you done fucked up, A-Aron.
Also, I have to rant about this bit, because Bob Lefsetz is a moron (and a fucking terrible writer who meanders and clearly hits "post" after his first rough draft). Like this:
Jon Landau is 75 years old. How tech-savvy do you think he is? Maybe more than most people his age, but if you know 75 year olds…you’ve probably helped them with their smartphone, and you may have even told them to plug their electronics in.
Furthermore, Bruce is Landau’s only superstar client. And Bruce has been out of the market for half a decade. How experienced is Landau here?
Which is why managers should consult with their lawyers before they make a touring deal, with someone who makes deals on a regular basis. You’ve got to be in the game to understand the landscape.
So, Landau is probably just as naive as Bruce. But Ticketmaster is in the business every damn day, so he trusts what they say, that their system should work.
(I'm going to start using the bullet function, rather than quotes, 'cuz I can't stand how huge a blockquote is)
Well, that's one huge heaping dose of ageism. It paints Landau as a doddering old fool. Which, you know, go fuck yourself? Like, I've speculated here that Jon is the prime mover behind this fiasco, and he undoubtedly great misunderestimated just how badly it'd go. But the idea that he's drooling in his Ovaltine, too stupid to consult with attorneys before signing the contract with Ticketmaster? Again, I gently suggest BL go fuck himself.
But. I also do believe that not having done this in six years means there's at least a chance Landau didn't fully grok just what was in store. Although, hell, I'm not sure TM fully was prepared for the pricing to go this high. Has it ever for any other artist? Are they in terra incognita too?
[W]e've all been made to feel we're part of an ongoing conversation, one in which we were all "in concert," a vital element of the formula: "If you're here, and we're here… they're here."
If you're not here… where does that leave them?
Wow.
http://www.backstreets.com/news.html
[Are we still trying to avoid threading?]
And that brings up another thorny bit. And that's the fact that we know, from his autobiography and interviews and biographies and Broadway that the perfectionist man-of-the-people from yesteryear was also desperately unhappy. And that he seems to be, finally, fully content, even as completely happy with his life as one can be. And the tradeoff, perhaps, is that debacles like this which would never have happened in the past are now a thing. Are we, perhaps, the ones who walk away from Omelas, or the ones who stay?
Here's Ticketmaster's justification...
It doesn't matter that it's "only 11%" of tickets when the other 89% of tickets sell out in minutes.
Under no circumstances should any ticket cost thousands of dollars, especially to see the "working man's rock star, the voice of his generation, the poet laureate of the average Joe."
That's the thing Scott, albeit very sad to some, they bring up what Bruce would have or wouldn't have done decades ago but people change. For me, I believe Bruce still has some of his traits from yesteryear, but I also believe at his age, for better or worse, he's saying fuck it to a lot he didn't before.
I don't know if this makes it better or worse, but I don't think he is, not anymore. I think he left that control freak behind a long time ago. Somewhere between working with Brendan O'Brien and Ron Aniello, he allowed himself to step back from the process considerably. I mean, look, it's clear that he doesn't really listen to the final mixes of any of the Archive releases—there's no way the perfectionist would let the various Nils and Steve guitar solos be mixed that low down.
I assume many of us have seen this delightful story:
I've always loved how Noel is so chuffed to talk to Bruce, being blown away by just how much Springsteen truly loves music. It's really awesome.
But there's a part of the story which has always really, really rubbed me the wrong way, and which I've tried to ignore. But here I am, mentioning it, and now it'll probably bother many of you too. :)
And that's the revelation that Bruce Springsteen hangs out on a massive yacht in Ibiza with Calvin Klein.
Look. I think we all agree that if there are to be people who are worth a billion dollars, better Bruce Springsteen—who is as close to a self-made man as it's possible to be (it's not)—than almost anyone else. And I want him to be happy and healthy and spending his days and night as he wants (provided it's legal and ethical and moral and all that). But...I mean...hanging out in Ibiza with Calvin Klein? That's...that's not the guy who wrote and recorded (and meant!) the Born in the USA album. That's not that insanely driven perfectionist of yore. That's a crazy rich guy who's very comfortable rubbing elbows with the aristocracy, and would prefer to do that than give an archive mix a serious listen...or pay attention to the details of what ticket prices are going to be, rather than allow his trusted manager (who knows him so well) to deal with that noise.
Scott i feel bad you don't get that kick from live music ( although right now financially maybe i am a little envious lol ) ....I have never had the money to pay exorbitant prices ..... So i have sat in a lot of mediocre seats ....
But music is the thing that makes me happiest ....All music .... But a great moment at a concert ...that will be like a 2 week anti depressant for me ....
But in my case ( and i can't be the only one ) that high can be a little less high the more you have seen an artist ....so maybe for this show the cost benefit analysis just doesnt work for me .....and its not the first time by a long shot that i will be disappointed that i can't see Bruce ....We can just add this to the 1978, 1981, 1985 and 1988 list and be happy with the times i was lucky enough to get tickets....
I think I heard it on the podcast that the most viable theory is that Bruce was informed about the dynamic pricing, but TM algorithms were simply not prepared for demand as high, and that pushed the prices so high so rapidly. In a sick way, just another ego boost for Bruce. Anyone else had prices as high? Also, some artists put a cap on the dynamic pricing, and that was obviously not the case.
Great post Scott P. I'm nowhere nearly as upset as others too, though I may have to sit this one out if prices don't drop. Well I know I have to sit it out, my whole self-identity is caught up in Bruce which doesn't mean I'd pay thousands of dollars if I had it, but I expected an increase with everything these last few years and if this disgusting platinum pricing drops like lots of experienced folks in the industry say it will, then I'm in.
I do think however Bruce knew exactly what was happening and had to sign off on it, it's not as if Ticketbastard can decide for him. So yes, that part is deeply disheartening to me and it's absolutely not right that thousands of not rich fans will be shut out. But he still hasn't diminished in my eyes because I am the one and only who put him on that pedestal all those years ago. So if he needs to drop down, so be it. But I'm still gonna go if I can and love every minute of it.
So I've been thinking about this for a while. I'm nowhere near as upset about this entire situation as most folks on here, for two simple reasons. The first is that while I like going to concerts and love going to see Bruce Springsteen, I have never rarely if ever experienced the kind of emotional catharsis pretty much everyone else on here regulaly has, in some cases every time. The live experience just doesn't touch me the way it does almost everyone else. I get much more of that from listening to a recording by myself while driving. And because of that, I wouldn't have paid $150 per ticket to go see him—it's just not a good ROI for me. I've still got kids at home and in college and that $150 buys an awful lot of pizza nights for the family, and that's simply a much better ROI for me. (Meanwhile, my 27-year-old is dying to go see him for the first time, and has plenty of disposable income, and dropping $200+ per ticket would be no big deal, so her ROI in that case would be outstanding, and good for her.)
But I absolutely understand why everyone else is so upset. And I too find this situation to be beyond egregious. Frankly, I would have found this to be a shameful thing if it were the fucking Eagles doing it, and I have less than no respect for them as people. (Even as I enjoy some of their music very much.)
So. Having blathered all that, here's my totally uneducated and uninformed guess as to what happened:
Firstly, I will admit that I am perhaps being overly Pollyanna-ish here. But I can’t help it, a big part of me wonders if Bruce didn’t even know about it ahead of time. If this is all on management. Which is to say: if this is entirely Jon Landau's fault. And that’s the reason we haven’t heard anything since it happened. Because Bruce didn’t know about it ahead of time. And he has been really truly pissed. At his best friend and manager of nearly 50 years.
The artists have a say in whether dynamic pricing gets used on their shows or not Ticketmaster are indeed criminals and immoral and a pox on society…but one reason they act the way they do is because—like agents and managers and attorneys—they get paid to be the bad guy. For the artists.
My parents always said we could use them as the fall guy if there was something we didn’t want to do. “My parents won’t let me.” Attorneys and agents and managers fulfill the same role for their clients. But that’s also what Ticketmaster does. Everyone knows it’s evil, so they get mad at TM and not at their beloved artist. Usually. But not in this case. When outrage over your ticket prices are in apparently every paper in the world, and CNN and Rolling Stone and Variety and so on, yeah, you have to say something.
So. I can 100% see a scenario where he didn’t know ahead of time. I mean, isn't this exactly the kind of decision that an artist has a manager for? I can further believe that once shit started hitting the fan, that Bruce was immediately, “Jon!? WTF?!” And that everything takes time to unspool from there.
What's more, what would an artist normally do with a fiasco of this magnitude? He'd likely fire the person responsible for fucking up so monumentally. Right? Well, that's almost unimaginable here. Jon's been his mentor for 47 years, and his best friend for the same length of time, and his manager for nearly as long. (Okay, okay, co-bestie.) And Jon was arguably just looking out for his client—pretty much his only client, which is important—financially, as well as himself. But in the process, may have seriously damaged his client's brand permanently, a brand that client had worked for 50 years to build and cultivate. Which means that whether Bruce is firing him or not, things must be absolute emotional and logistical chaos over there.
BUT. That’s the point of being The Boss, right? The buck ultimately stops with you. Whether he knew about it ahead of time or not. Whether he has to fire his best friend and mentor or take the PR hit himself.
When I look at myself I don’t see the man I wanted to be
Somewhere 'long the line I slipped off track
Whatever the truth behind the scenes is, 35-year-old Bruce would be ashamed of this. Truly ashamed.
@mavis I see you're back to Rizla?
Who would have thought that we'd ever think wistfully about Harvey Bloody Goldsmith.....
And yet... and yet... and yet...
I just watched this. So much of it should now sound hollow to me. And yet, I was moved to the point of tears as I always am watching and listening to this particular performance.
Magic trick? Consider me bamboozled, I guess. Trust the art and not the artist? I dunno, even that is too much... whatever he is doing here, my reaction is so visceral I can't stop my emotions running away. If it's all an illusion, it's a fuckin good one, I'll give him yet.
So, this hasn't affected me personally. I managed to get tickets for a show in Europe (for which the most egregious thing was the queue) and while it doesn't truly anger me to see these prices, it does annoy and it does disappoint.
It's most annoying because it does affect people on here who I care for very much ('Internet friends' be damned). It's also frustrating because even though it won't stop me enjoying songs like "Jack of All Trades," or "Man at the Top," I guess now I'll always listen to them with a feeling of "aged badly, this."
Even more so, though, it's the fact that he's just sold his catalogue for half a million and is still asking for so much money. I can't fathom how anyone can become a billionaire essentially (let's face it, he pretty much is) and still want more.
Reminds me of the words some other singer sang; "rich man wanna be king, and a king ain't satis-
Oh, hang on.
For fuck's sake, Bruce.
If there is a response from Ticketbastard or Bruce/Landau inc. I can't wait to hear it.
Ticketbastard have previously justified their touting by likening it to hotels and airline seats supply side economics.
My answer is, yes, and that fucking stinks too.
Apparently Ticketmaster and Springsteen Inc. are drafting a response to offer us their view of the situation. I don't care what they have to say. There's no excuse. The whole "platinum ticket" scheme is just a legal scam. Ticketmaster is now able to scalp its own tickets.
I really thought Bruce would wind down his rock and roll career with a little more class than this.
I'm a bit heartbroken, to be honest. It's not Springsteen's fault that I met my daughter late in life, but it's absolutely his fault that I'll never see an E Street Band show with her. So, like brother Buddha said, "fuck you, Bruce Springsteen." Go buy your kid another fucking pony. Me and mine don't need you.
Tickets may have been harder to get in 84/85 than they previously were, but they were fairly priced and everyone had a shot at them. No one paid 4k for a ticket to the USA tour. Hell, even my scalped seats for Ames were only 300.
Set the price and put them on sale until they're gone. Don't raise the cost of a seat because demand is higher. It's not a fucking auction. Even the great Bruce Springsteen does not put on a four thousand dollar show.
Hmm, the latest None But The Brave podcast episode that dropped in the last 24 hours is an interesting listen. When JLM has managed to get those two guys offside, you know it's a fairly big time fuck up.
Oh, and spoiler alert...
.... on an unrelated topic, someone around here gets a name drop in the episode.
@Mavis Grind Fair enough, I didn't know about that (out of curiousity how does it work?) I was simply going on their general pricing.
It's impossible to defend our guy on this.
I've thrown in a few "Devil's advocate" lines in the discussion, but I wouldn't attempt to justify this shit show.
It is yet another major bollock dropped.
But the tickets are selling, the stadiums will be full and on it will go.
Until the tickets don't sell and the stadiums are empty, it will continue.
Morally it's been steadily down hill for a couple of years. The habit of a release of a deluxe-editon version of the album a couple months after the release of the original album, the Wal-Mart album deal, the Ford commercial... to mention a few things. If he was younger and in a better shape as a performer and with a stronger album to promote I'd probably grind my teeth and get a ticket, but not now. He's too old. I'll stay home, watch the No Nukes concert on my tv just sitting back trying to recapture
a little of the glory.
Gambling man rolls the dice, working man pays the bill
It's still fat and easy up on banker's hill
Up on banker's hill the party's going strong
Down here below we're shackled and drawn
@Bosstralian Great analogy.
@Louisa I expect from what I've read, many of the original 73-81 crowd felt exactly that way when 84-85 blew up like it did. In fact, I think the existential issue you raise for us fans now has a strong parallel to what those OGs (for want of a better term) may have endured when their hero suddenly seemed to be cashing in his chips at their expense back then.
I'm sorry if I was clumsy with how I was expressing myself. The more I think of it, the more paradoxical the situation feels to me.
His music and how it affects me hasn't changed one tiny bit. I still feel the honesty and the connection, still love him completely. It is not lost for me, I think the opposite even. This shameful situation proves how correct he has been throughout his career when addressing social injustice. I'm not even trying to say that he has somehow betrayed his fans. I believe the times have changed, and as I said on the other thread, his management adapted to the new rules of the market.
What started to disturb me was this repetitive question in my head. Do I still belong to be in that stadium with the people there? Will I still feel at home?
There was a time when they would add shows to satisfy demand. Now they just add on to the price and exploit the loyalty of fans.
It's all been bullshit for a while - beginning with the Verified Fan crap and progressing to where we are now with tickets priced by demand rather than performance.
Bruce is now the Harley Davidson of rock and if you think that sounds cool, I'm using it as an insult.
I come at the live show perspective of this from a different view only due to geography.
Up until the last decade or so, Bruce here in Australia was rare. Here in my hometown, Adelaide, even more so. His first Oz tour was 1985, I was only 15 and was at the start of my fan journey anyway so travelling to the eastern seaboard to see a show wasn't even on the radar. Next up here, GOTJ tour... I'd only just gotten married, again not realistic for me to get interstate to see a show. No Reunion tour here... straight through to Rising 2003. Again no Adelaide, but finally, I had the means and ways to get to Melbourne to see my musical hero for the first and, for all I knew, only time.
Then 2013 (yep, fuck you Aussies, no D&D, Seeger, Magic or WOAD for you).. I managed to talk Mrs Bosstralian into allowing me two shows in Melbourne, both of which blew 2003 away. Thinking that would be it... then suddenly, 2014... two shows in Adelaide. Outside of weddings and births, the two most memorable nights in my life. Then, some cream on the cake... 2017. That ticket was for a seat halfway down the arena and from memory was mid $200 Aussie dollars. So already not cheap.
So, at only 6 shows, the itch for more of that unique Bruce live experience is strong. But not break the bank at all costs strong. I'm still a married father, one girl at school, a combined household income somewhere around the average. So if an Oz tour materialises, it will be interesting.
The moral question @Louisa raises. I don't know. Nothing here so far changes how No Surrender, Thunder Road, Walk Like A Man, The River etc etc makes me feel. Hell, Bruce himself has told me several times (Storytellers DVD, the SOB Netflix show) that holier than thou public Bruce Springsteen is off doing stuff via a magic trick while the actual Bruce Springsteen is sitting in the mud. I guess we'll see if my thoughts change if or when I need to say to Mrs Bosstralian that Bruce is coming and I need $400 Aussie to see it and I get a 'No. Fuckin. Way' in reply.
What I meant with questioning our moral values was: Do I, XY, who payed XXXX $ to see him at multiple shows, still truly believe in his music and what he stands for?
How will people in the front rows feel knowing they stand there only because they had the money. And those who didn't had to stay home.
Bruce's value doesn't equate to the value of a few hours in an arena. There's not a thing he'll do on that stage or an emotion I'd have at a show that is worth thousands of dollars a ticket, or even more than a few hundred. He ought to spend some time questioning the moral values of his organization and the Ticketmaster corporate thieves it treats with.
Do you know what Bruce's actual value is? Until we are all dead, he will continue to make us question our moral values.
I've got no interest in the tour. The way the tickets are being priced is disgusting. A show has value, but the value of the show should be determined by quality of the show itself, not by the quantity of seats available vs. number of people who want to sit in said seats. There was a time when more shows would be added to satisfy demand - now, they just price fans out of the market. It's sleazy to think of Springsteen shows being priced this way, especially in a time of high inflation and struggling working people.
I've seen my last E Street Band show, then. That was in 2016 and it was a great show. The memory is all I need. I'll enjoy the downloads and stay home.
I haven't checked out BTX, but as you say, the idiot factor is buzzing in the old place.
I think there's no doubt that Bruce Inc./Landau Inc. have dropped another massive PR bollock (at best) this time round, particularly in the current climate as global capitalism rapes a massive wedge of the population.
You can make arguments ...."still cheaper than equivalent acts"......"global logistics".......in defence, but they don't really stand up to scrutiny.
But as long as demand meets/outstrips supply, it won't change.......not with Bruce, The Stones, U2....any "stadium level" act.
Unless and until everyone says a collective "fuck you" and doesn't buy the tickets, it ain't changing.....and there's plenty enough of us haven't taken that approach this time round.
I'm painfully aware there won't be many more chances to experience the magic, hence why I bit the bullet.
It's not sitting that easily with me, but I've made my choices and I'll need to live with them.
Oh and can I just add, Ticketmaster are fucking scum.
BTX in meltdown right now, haven't checked GL. But some of what I'm seeing in terms of people's experiences and also the ticket pricing for the shows in the States is crazy. I might need to start lining up which banks to hit here now in readiness for any potential Oz tour if this is to be repeated here...
It's a bloodbath.
No way he doesn't know what's being done to the fans. My god.